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The First Amendment reads as follows:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
The first known occurence of the exact phrase "separation of church and state" is in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, since quoted several times in Supreme Court decisions.
Jefferson also wrote:
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. "
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes. "
People like you seem to think that you can make up any lie you want to, as long as it's draped in the respectability of Christianity. Tantamount to urban legend indeed.
Here's one for you...
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
<<< Thomas Jefferson
Thanks... These Fundamentalists really believe the lies they are taught about this being a "Christian nation" where Christians have the right to dominance and we're all here by your leave. They have no understanding of what it means to live in a pluralistic society. They have no concept of other people's liberty that does not include taking orders from them. They have dire Biblical warnings for anyone who does not submit to their ignorance superstition cowardice and fear. It's taken a long time but they - with help from Shrub Bush - have finally destroyed the obscene power of the Republican Party to whip up the ignorant with MO-rality while they robbed the blind. They really do not understand how much like the Taliban their primitive thought processes are, The see the head wrappings and think they are different. They're not very much different. They despise other people's freedom equally and equally ignorantly. They are far more threatening to the future of America than al Queda. No outside force will defeat America. As Sinclair Lewis wrote long ago: "When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Their guy, George Bush compromised our democracy and pushed us closer to the edge of loosing everything that has made America exceptional that we have come in 200 years. They will not believe that until George Bush goes to prison. That is why I advocate prosecution for the crimes of the last 8 years. It must be made plain what matters to be an America. We'll see...Joey
It's about time people stopped acting the way you speak and take Separation of Church and State as it was it was ment to be taken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_chur...
but the tax thing is complicated. i definitly wouldnt support it being retracted everywhere.
And, frankly, if churches are worried about losing their tax-exempt status in order to continue to provide such services, then they should stay out of politics. Period.
Spend millions of dollars to promote bigotry instead of feeding and housing those less fortunate than themselves?
The churches are getting too big for their boots. Time to cut their tax except status, and cut gov't funding to religious based school. You want your kid to have a religious education? You pony up the money yourself.
There are very good reasons why we should welcome the contribution of religious communities to provide charity services. Despite my near universal contempt for their popes, ayatollahs and mind-diddlers like James Dobson, there is a vast sea of decency in many communities of faith. these people want to serve those in need and many of them are very good at delivering services. I have run a nonprofit for 20 years and have come to respect and admire the kindness and decency of many of the people who use the structure of churches as a platform to do wonderful humanitarian things & frankly, very often government bureaucrats are not well intentioned or very good at their jobs. Putting all of our services in the hands of government is a bad idea. I run an NGO which I believe plays a roll in service delivery that is more efficient & user friendly than government and less restricted by ideology than church run charities. There are so many men, women and children in need that everyone's contribution can be of use..
a church, at any given point, will have many different fund accounts. especially if it is a large church. just because they give money to support something political [which i don't actually support] doesn't mean they don't also support the homeless and poor.
If the church leaders want to play with politics, they should run for office. Preaching their hate behind the safety of their pulpit just shows them up to be the cowards that they are.
those donating to focus on the family are typically christians who would claim the same values for their lives - it's not as if focus on the family were doing this behind their backs without telling them.
We live in a universe that is billions of years old, That gives us a choice. Either we can stretch our minds and our imaginations to attempt to understand the awesome majesty and power of the God of that infinite universe OR we can shrink god down to fit inside our cowardly little minds, then we can use that dwarfed little god as our pet puppy dog to pretend the he comes when we whistle. I guess you have made your choice; I made mine. How dare you presume that blind- faith in preposterous, ignorant nonsense gives you the right to judge other peoples lives.
I have been writing about this threat ever since I watched Jesse Helms' circus turn the North Carolina primary for Ronald Reagan. I saw the power and the danger inherent in what I have called the 'unholy alliance" between right-wing politics and primitive Christianity.
Although momentarily discredited by the massive incompetence of the Bush presidency, as long as Fundamentalist Christians are led by predators like James Dobson and Pat Robertson, they remain a threat to the health and liberty of all Americans.
To confirm that threat, all one need do is to re-read the ugly, cowardly, dishonest and hysterical rant of James Dobson's, when he, impotently, railed against the coming election of President Obama. For all of their pretensions to divine inspiration, these predators have no integrity and no respect for human decency.
the truth is, focus on the family isn't a church. james dobson isn't a pastor. and i've never really liked his ideas. still don't.
to clarify: i neither support nor like james dobson.
nor am i a sheep [?]
to kiamtan: do not talk to me or about me if you cannot do it in a grammatically correct manner. you sound too unintelligent to even entertain with an argument.
Let's see, who sounds less intelligent: someone who writes in a less than grammatically-perfect manner, or someone who presumes to lecture people on physics and population biology when she clearly has no grasp of the basic principles of either discipline? Hmmm....
I always think if companies would just lay off the CEO, they might be able to save most of the "little" people's jobs. Maybe it's time for someone to step down.
Rev. Focus seems to only focus on hatred and he doesn't seem to give a rat's a** for the BORN on our planet. I hope God asks him why someday.
These gay people think that we should all think like them but that is not necessarily true. I think their whole rights is so phony so untrue and so very DISGUSTING
Fire him first! And then shut down this disgraceful organization!
Dobson can pray for them while they sit in the emergency room with their children begging for basic health sevices
I'd like to see all these organization -- Focus on the Family, the mormon church -- go bankrupt. At the very least, they should pay taxes on their income.
Focus of the Family has shown that it is nothing but political institution with the agenda to socially engineer our society through government.
Tax them!
http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-compl...
Focus on the Family, instead uses the money to make christianity the law, rather than a choice. They back various candidates, who do not live a christian lifestyle simply because these candidates promise to pass laws, legislation and amendments to force non christians to accept the Bible's laws.
I have been unable to find one instance of Christ making a law. His message was in fact the opposite. Christ was crucified by false religious leaders who used "laws" of man, to convict him of crimes. Christ died as a sacrifice and to free us from the law, by his dying for our sins.
Dobson's ministry as well as many right wing religious leaders have become like the men who crucified Christ. They completely ignore the message of Christ's life. These ministries will be cursed for using the christian religion to do evil things to non christians.
When did he say that? I didn't hear him say that. Come to think of it, I've never heard this imaginary goblin say anything. But maybe I'm not special enough to hear his magic words. Maybe I'm a demon from the underworld.
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL offenders
Do you not know that Paul is responsible for writing 1 Corinthians? Do you not know that Jesus didn't ever say a single word about homosexuality in the four Gospel books?
To quote Jesus, "Are you so dull?".
Radicals, be they Christian or Muslim never learn.....stupidity seems to be their ideology. Very Very Dangerous!
http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-compl...
Next topic....how many people will lose their jobs when FOF turns their efforts towards their asinine "war on christmas"?
Exactly. Focus on the Family is part of an INDUSTRY. It merely uses religion as cover. It--and all the other industrial-strength mega-church marketing frauds--should lose their tax exempt status and be treated as commercial, money-making enterprises.
http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-compl...
http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/
Now hopefully the sheeple will awaken.
Joseph
www.explorelifeblog.com
If they want to choose not to help gay people, that is their choice. However, to focus on being purposefully hateful and ensuring that others do not get something is completely out of line with Christian teaching.
The sooner they learn that they should focus on what Christ taught and serving those that are in need, the less they will have to spend on these other programs. In addition, they should be avoiding the politics here lest they get their non-profit status pulled away.
Please help them stop the hypocrisy.
And at the same time, I can't tell another grown person what they can or can't do. Certainly not to the extent of spending millions of dollars to get this passed.
"Ministry spent more than $500,000 to defeat California's Prop. 8 gay marriage ban"
and should read something like,
"Ministry spent more than $500,000 to support California's Prop. 8 gay marriage ban"
They did after all want the ban, but your tag line suggests they opposed it.
It's a sad, obvious testimony to their real goal: stopping families from forming and unforming those that are already formed.
I laugh at those who contribute to this hate-filled organization.
Maybe he will someday understand that 'love thy neighbor' and 'judge not so you be judged not' thing.
And when will they deal with their own trashing of marriage? A little deal called divorce. I'll bet you can find divorce fordden in the Bible too; yeah, the Gospels are part of the Bible; it's time to treat them as such.
this couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks Loved it wen it they prayed 4 rain and got a hurricane prayed for chaos at the demo convention and got it at the repb convention Now the fires in CA were caused by the gays getting married (made god mad) now they got rid of it and god appears madder burning down CA. Well hope this creep goes back under a rock...
"Industry"? I knew no one there had read the bible.
I'd NEVER hire anyone who worked for a hate group or extreme right wing group that specialized in oppression and pushing discriminatory laws. I mean, I'd want to only hire people with a bit of moral comapss.
Likely he is a closeted gay himself, and that is why he is so obsessed with the whole thing. I hope the whole organization goes bankrupt. Good riddance.
The only real justice would be for his last remaining followers to testify to the IRS calling for his tax free status to revoked once and for all. This power rest in the hands of his followers.
I wonder if she is any relation to Black Water Pres. Mr. Prince? These are such loving understanding nonviolent folks. NOT
Hah Hah!
I wish people from CO would stay out of CA business... if you want to be a part of our glorious state, get off your ass an move here. And pay taxes.
But watch out. We got the gays...
They don't care at all about anyone. Just pushing their agenda of control, while raking in money from bigots.
The fact that this "organization" gets away with paying no taxes infuriates me.
I hope he burns.
What will happen to the families of the laid-off employees? Will they be thrown on the tender mercies of the taxpayers?
Prop. 8 uses the power of the government to force the views of one church onto another which has different views. It is an establishment of religion.
Why don't all of you religious freaks put your own houses in order before you intrude into those of others.
I'm sure Jesus would never have approved.
I've done some reading regarding Mr. Dobson. I would suggest that anyone not familiar with the ideology and "plan" for this great country by the godly, like Dobson, familarize themselves as to the extent that this "type" has managed to ensconce themselves into government (via: Born Again). Let it be very clear, that history is replete with religious fanatics who would persecute and destroy anything in their way. If Dobson and his loving bunch possibly could, people would be burning at the stake to cleanse the world of witches, heretics, Tele Tubby dolls, etc. DO SOMETHING!!
Jackie Bell
Fort Worth, Texas
America is a democratic republic, not a theocracy. Period.
If you are going to speak with any authority on The Constitution of the United States of America, you really should read it first with the intent of understanding its principles and precepts. Repeating the sound bites and talking points of others is the hallmark of a mindless fool. Constitutional law relies on an intelligent ability to reason and interpret meaning from its provisions. Principles are different in construct from simple rules and require more than a simpleton's understanding for application.
Our "Forefathers" are recorded with a great many foolish, evil and destructive acts; should we blindly and ignorantly follow those as well? Are you simply unable or unwilling to think for yourself in the context of your own times?
While the Knights of Columbus dutifully executed their own commission and agenda by lobbying Congress to stamp "under God" and "In God We Trust" on everything they could in the past century, especially while we indulged paranoia about the threat of being overtaken by "godless communists,” we are still, thankfully, not a theocracy.
America doesn't require blind faith, and America is not immutable.
America is a nation, not a religion.
Discern the difference.
Eschew obfuscation.
You know 'relgious' people forget who is in charge over time. Thank God God is not 'religious'.
Give life only to that which yields life. Be love.
Recommended reading: I Corinthians 13
America is a democratic republic, not a theocracy. Period.
If you are going to speak with any authority on The Constitution of the United States of America, you really should read it first with the intent of understanding its principles and precepts. Repeating the sound bites and talking points of others is the hallmark of a mindless fool. Constitutional law relies on an intelligent ability to reason and interpret meaning from its provisions. Principles are different in construct from simple rules and require more than a simpleton's understanding for application.
Our "Forefathers" are recorded with a great many foolish, evil and destructive acts; should we blindly and ignorantly follow those as well? Are you simply unable or unwilling to think for yourself in the context of your own times?
While the Knights of Columbus dutifully executed their own commission and agenda by lobbying Congress to stamp "under God" and "In God We Trust" on everything they could in the past century, especially while we indulged paranoia about the threat of being overtaken by "godless communists,” we are still, thankfully, not a theocracy.
America doesn't require blind faith, and America is not immutable.
America is a nation, not a religion.
Eschew obfuscation. Discern the difference.
A little confession might do you good.
The object of your hate could not have been sustained for so long without a personal connection.
Besides, I had two daddies, and just look how well I turned out.
Love ya',
Sweet Baby Jesus
I mean, if it wasn't for Dobson and others like him, my marriage would have suffered untold damages as soon as the first gay couple married in the state of Kentucky.
Oh wait....I got divorced 6 years.
Hmmm.... *Emily Lutella voice*: "Nevermind."
:-)
Now, about that separation of Church and State....
America, I think we need to talk.
when those around them are left to fend for themselves....
Its such a shame....
HOW about taking that money out of Dobson's check...
Some one need to be held accountable for this...
I wouldn't support any of these tv. preachers. Sooner or later, they trip up themselves and we are so surprised to learn that they are greedy ego maniacs who have shows to preach Their message, not a Christian one.
If more people really listened to what's being sold by them, there would never have been a Jonestown.
Be a sheep and do what some ignorant, crazy tv personality tells you, and you too can be enslaved.
There's a reason why every civilized society up until recently has vilified sodomy - the cost to society at all levels is incredibly high... I've seen enough of it in my own family...
As for tax exempt status, learn the rules before offering legal advice. It's a futile effort to try to tax a church.
or Do unto others as you'd like them to do unto you or Life is a circle , all you do comes back to you etc, etc etc.
I personally know a number of people who are otherwise wonderful folks who are completely bought into this organization. Back in the day (20+ years ago) Focus wouldn't hire a woman to do anything other than a secretarial/admin assistant gig. Fast forward to today. What do we expect?
Please don't judge Christians by this sad group. I believe that they originally meant well but went terribly, terribly wrong very early on.
I am a Christian, and would even call myself an evangelical, but never a "Christofascist" which is a total oxymoron.
Reasonable people would find nothing wrong with that idea. It's only religious fanatics that object. Proposition 8 is based on lies and absurdity. How can you promote marriage by banning it? How can you promote traditional family values by prohibiting certain groups of individuals from embracing those values? We currently have thousands of abandoned children in foster care, a phenominally dysfunctionaly system. Wouldn't it be wiser to allow loving, stable, sober, church-going homosexual couples to adopt these children?
The proponents of Proposition 8 violated the 9th Commandment of the Bible thousands of times. They launched a campaign straight out of the play book of Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister. I should level one warning to Focus on the Family. People in many parts of the world regard Chrisitians with the same horror and revulsions that Focus on the Family reserves for gays. By giving a green light to a persecution campaign in America, Focus on the Family gives a green light to religious extremists around the world to attack Christians. What goes around, comes around. When this occurs, I expect Focus on the Family to assume full responsibility for their behavior.
to block the Obama vote because they didnt get what they wanted? You are testing Democracy, the people voted but its not what the people want...its what you want that counts.
two opposite thoughts on right and wrong. One is dark and sinister and most couldnt take the film if showed secret. The other wants tradition, 50's ma and pa and apple pie, good wholesome stuff. I could go on and on
on how we got here but here is the bottom line:
one school of thought is inspired by demonic spirits who willing souls succomb to
the other is Godly.
KARMA
If they were a Christian organization they would actually care about the poor, starving, homeless....just today I read that 50% more kids in the U.S. are going to bed hungry. It's sad when you have fanatical organizations like this spending all their time and effort trying to impose their extreme views on the general public and calling themselves Christians. In actuality there not much different than the Taliban and give real Christians a bad name.
SATAN!
I toss my head back and laugh. I laugh out loud. They may have temporarily stopped marriage equality with their once deep pockets. Now they must explain to their cult members, that indeed they will be let go because of the money spent trying to hurt others. I sure hope Elsa has a large dinner table. After all, it wouldn't be very Christian of her to let the out of work employees go hungry at the Holiest time of the year.
Again I laugh at them. Ha Ha
pathetic. spare me the theological and state arguments. it needs to end. Jesus would never have tolerated such behavior and the, Focus on the Family, would have been the crowd cheering "CRUCIFY HIM! CRUCIFY HIM!" This ilk is no more Christlike than my neighbor's cat.
pathetic
Taliban is associated with physical violence in accomplishing their aims. Campaigning for the sanctity of marriage by informing and motivating people to participate in the democratic process by voting against the ungodly desires of those who would rather expose the world to the Fire and Brimstone wrath of a Longsuffering, Holy, Righteous and Just God is not 'Talibanism'.
The Holy Bible clearly records that Homosexuals are highly intolerant of those who object to their choice to yield to their ungodly desires (Genesis 19:9; Judges 19:22-28). Their vicious campaign is therefore not a surprise.
Unbelief did not deliver the people of Sodom and Gomorrah from being consumed by the Fire and Brimstone that fell from Heaven, neither will it deliver this world from being consumed by Fire and Brimstone if we allow Homosexuals to hijack this world, as they hijacked Sodom and Gomorrah.
I find it interesting that those that espouse "tolerance" are quite intolerant of those that disagree with them. You need to ask yourself why has this issue failed 31 out of 31 times when left to the states. Could it be that people believe that marriage between a man and a woman is, and has been the only way to define marriage.?There is a difference between "tolerance" an advocacy, I believe most liberals confuse the two.
As a Christian I have gay friends and I treat them with respect. I suggest you at least hear what others say and treat them with respect before you compare them to terrorist for disagreeing with you.
it as a motivation for the fund raising.
What would 1000 staff do without spending their time drumming up the gay threat? A focal and a rally point is
needed, if not to be created if necesarry for their survival.
Gentle Lamb
Singapore
http://www.psa91.com
It is a Constitutional amendment.
Do you people believe in democracy or not?
If not, just say so. Dump election and let us be ruled by Judges.
A gay lovers quarrel is horrendous to behold.
Oops. My karma just ran over your dogma.
Does focus on the family pay taxes? If they don't, they should. There is a big movement stirring underfoot that these religious groups better stay out of my government, or they will pay big taxes. They are no longer churches, and are now PACs and lobbyists and should be treated as such. Since prop eight passage, they have really wakened a sleeping giant. People are pissed off. I know a lot of high profile lawyers already on the case.
Jefferson on several occasions reffered to a "Firewall" between church and state. Why is it these religious fenatics don't get this. Separation of Church and state protects everyone. They have created this made up "culture war" nonsense. But what they don't realize is if they think any one person or group can somehow take away their spirituality, then frankly you have a lot of personal homework to do.
My sense of self and my relationship with a higher being is something on one can take away. Perhaps these so called Christians need to move to another higher spiritual level. Dobson...truly the mark of a small mind.
Talk about mixed up priorities. I hope Focus on the Family members and followers recognize the irony of this situation. However, they are probably too myopic in their "FOCUS" to get the twist, if you catch my drift..
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."
The irony is that Dobson should know this verse and should have seen his own folly, but unfortunately, he and his ministry have blinders on
Dobson is just another Huckster of Holiness, a shameless fraud, selling salvation and bathing in the money.
self hating, externalizing that hate to anyone that is different in any way, claiming the "right" of god to "smite" anyone for any perceived difference.
Just like the other taliban, they claim to follow a newer update of the old testament, but constantly refer to it for rationalization and justification. They want a theocracy and hate the wall of separation more than anything (but love the wall that keeps them from paying taxes).
Look up Elsa Prince, mother of Erik Prince, the founder of th largest mercenary army on earth; BlackWater:
http://www.mediamouse.org/resources/right.php?p...
Ignorance X paranoia = Fucus
"He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses."
-Proverbs 28:27
Speads his falsehoods to make a profit.
I spent a lot of time listening to Focus on the Family but I woke up one day and realized that the god they are preaching about is not the one that my heart knows. Jesus was way more accepting of others than the way organized religion would have you believe.
The Bible tells us that we shall know them by their fruit. Obviously this organization is focusing its attention on Prop 8 and sending $500K to defeat gay marriage. I just don't think that they have their priorities in the right place and obviously the fact that they have to lay off employees shows that they are not bearing fruit and they are not being good stewards with their money.
As fine as these values are, they have nothing to do with, as Christopher Buckley put it in these pages, civil contract law, which is all that the State has to say about marriage. If you want to say anything else about marriage in your religion, fine, but why should you have to rely on the State and Federal Governments to validtate your sacraments?
Jesus said, "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another" (John 13:35). I guess he meant "except gays and lesbians," but forgot to say so.
I'm so sick of the religious hate politic.
If no good deed goes unpunished, then it certainly stands to reason these peoples' decidedly wicked deeds will suffer a similar fate. Ah, it makes the soul swell with joy to see such a beautiful balance.
Jesus would be ASHAMED of YOU!
1. Homosexuality is NOT a choice, but being a Christian IS.
2. Gays want to live our lives and your AGENDA is standing in our way, we have NO AGENDA.
3.Christians recruit people for their cause not Homosexuals, contrary to popular belief, you're either GAY or you're NOT. No one can be turned gay. Homosexuals DO NOT RECRUIT. Christians DO.
4.I'm an EX-Christian and think you and Focus on the Family should actually read your BIBLE.
While you're at it, check out this scripture, James 1:26-27
To add to our current debate...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCzbNkyXO50
a hilarious satire!
http://www.youvebeenleftbehind.com/index.html
simply stupid
The National Equality Tax Protest
There are a fair number of people who support the gay people and their effort to change the world. Focus on the family wants to keep traditions and the Gay groups want to change traditions. I wonder who supports them. Maybe a lot of unknown little people who supported Obama.
The big issue here is who speaks the most hate. Have not seen any comments of hate toward the long suffering gay people. I have seen some comments of hate towards the focus on the family people. Calling them Taliban is really sad and inflamitory. It makes you wonder sometimes who is right
ONE OF THEIR MEMBERS IS THE MOTHER OF "THE MERCHANT OF DEATH IN IRAQ", HELL IS ALREADY RESERVED FOR THEM.
I'm waiting for them to defile a black church (or mosque) the way they did that white house of worship.
Considering that Prop 8 opponents had some major corporate heavy hitters on their side, not to mention Ah-nuld, you could be forgiven for thinking that they were the "establishment" and the opponents of gay marriage the "little guys."
LogicNow...maybe I can answer your question...because G.W. Bush is "President" Dick Cheney is V.P. they appointed and politized the DOJ, all of the "cabinet" ..and picked three of the Supreme Court Judges...and also cheated in at least the 2000,2002,2004..elections..while the Democrats curled up in the fetal position under the bed
"“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. – That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” The Declaration of Independence-
Our elected officials put there hand on a bible and sware to up hold the Constitution they do not put there hand on the Constitution and sware to up hold the bible!!!
http://www.modernreformation.org/default.php?pa...
Thank you James Dobson for being a great part of why the GOP is falling apart - you old bigots just do not get it.
Focus on the Family was just doing what's right as a Christian organization keen to uphold the word of God. Can we justify the breaking of God's word for the name of love?
Cheers!
And every thing they want to tell anonymously.And www.layoffgossip.com is providing you that platform.
Across America, the religious nutcases, the televangelists, the faith healers, and the occasional snake handler -- all of them are losing business, losing their Bentleys and SUVs, running out of money, firing one another (watched the Reverends Schuller lately? Richard and Oral Roberts?) and now -- hooray -- losing the ability to proselytize their nonsense. Americans are reclaiming their country. Finally.
Wal Mart is the new great demon of the age, cuttin' into our profits! I bet my tooth on it!
1. This vote, almost certainly, will be overturned by the California Supreme Court. It is irrational to think that a majority vote can be used to take away civil rights from a minority — any minority. Just read Madison & Jefferson if you want to elucidate that point; then go to the California State Constitution, where justices found confirmation of the right in the first place.
2. Even if Prop,. 8 is not judicially overturned , the voting trend in California supports it's eventual defeat. There are too many openly gay people here for voters across the state not to personally know someone who is gay, this is no longer an impersonal abstraction for us; these are our co-workers, our colleagues, our friends and our neighbors.. The last time this right was forced to a vote it was denied by a margin of 18%; this time with the force of an overwhelming advantage in funding, the right to marriage was denied by 4%. Even Fundamentalists can do enough math to track that progression.
3. An overtly dishonest campaign that frightened people with false advertising, inspired revulsion after the fact. Within two weeks after the election, polls indicated that more than 10% of the people who had voted for proposition 8, regretted their vote in great part because they believed the adds misled them with fraudulent scenarios replete with non-existent consequences.
4. State-wide adds, funded by The Roman Catholic & Mormon Churches — plus fringe groups like Focus on the Family —broadcast what everyone now knows to be bald-faced lies. What religious group benefits from a reputation for crude and blatant dishonesty? These ads cynically demonstrated a philosophy where the end justify the means. Whether or not we agree that this end was good, we can all agree — from any honest examination of these flagrantly dishonest ads — that the means were evil. Who can claim righteousness from acts of deceit?
I can think o now group that I would rather see pour their funding down a rat whole than focus on the family. I believe they teach false values that have distorted and damaged America, but I doubt that their supporters are as happy as I am to see them squander the contributions of their donors on lost causes.
I can certainly think of a hundred better things that could have been done with that million dollars. I'd even be willing to bet that if I sat down with any rational member of Focus on the Family and that we could make a list of ten unmet needs that could have been met with this million dollars, about which we would enthusiastically agree. A million dollars: that's a hundred $10,000 college scholarships; that's 10,000 weeks of groceries for hungry families of four — and that's only in America. In West Africa, where I work, for one million dollars we could put a thousand students through high school. It make me sad to think about the waste?
http://www.mpos.net/s/p4.asp
http://fashionshow99.spaces.live.com
The Holy Bible clearly records that Homosexuals are highly intolerant of those who object to their choice to yield to their ungodly desires (Genesis 19:9; Judges 19:22-28). Their vicious campaign is therefore not a surprise.
Unbelief did not deliver the people of Sodom and Gomorrah from being consumed by the Fire and Brimstone that fell from Heaven, neither will it deliver this world from being consumed by Fire and Brimstone if we allow Homosexuals to hijack this world, as they hijacked Sodom and Gomorrah.
I mean, do you actually believe this rubbish.
Scary if you do.
Real scary
Seriously. It's in Revelation. You ought to try reading it sometime.
Your absence of logic is remarkable.
the second law of thermodynamics states that things go from order to disorder, not the other way around.
my logic is sound, karen.
but thank you for trying to make me feel ignorant to make yourself feel better.
Entropy, doesn't state that "things go from order to disorder". Entropy is a measure of the unavailability of a system’s energy to do work. True that entropy deals with physical processes and whether they occur spontaneously, but this is at the atomic and sub atomic levels. Thermodynamics is all about physics, not genetic diversity! Nice try though. I take that back, it isn't a nice try it is a fundamental misunderstanding of modern physics! That is the problem with the religious nuts out there, one word, misrepresented by christianites, turns into a statement on genetic diversity. I can't even believe how crazy this is!
but christianites? seriously?
please, in your infinite wisdom, explain genetic diversity to me. i don't want to be misinformed.
"Since Adam and Eve are Biblical characters we first need to refer to other aspects of Biblical data for a complete answer. Modern science, together with sociology also has some good answers to this very good question.
Firstly, and very simply, modern genetics has clearly demonstrated how all the genetic diversity which we see in terms of differences in skin color and appearance are literally quite minor and are trivial in terms of the overall genome of humans. This is why a white person can sometimes be a better donor for blood and tissues to a black person than another black person and vice versa. So, first of all, it needs to be understood that genetically humans are basically all the same, despite obvious differences between individuals within the same socio-ethnic grouping, and despite superficial differences such as color, eye fat content (a factor in the different Asian eye) etc.
Secondly, if we understand the principles of genetic inheritance, we can also understand how every skin color on earth can develop from two mid-brown individuals. This is known in practice when two people, themselves the progeny of a white and a black person have children, they themselves can have children of either black or white appearance or any shade in between.
Thirdly, the above point leads into sociology, which explains why 'Africans are still Africans'. The reason for this is the way social groupings, aided by relevant language barriers in many cases, tend to stay isolated from persons who are different and are possibly therefore 'taboo' as eligible marriage partners. Thus it is not merely a matter of genetics that accounts for differences. What matters is that certain populations have become isolated and become specialized and restricted to a particular skin color.
Fourthly, relating to both genetics and Biblical history, two mid brown individuals, with no population isolation, and so continuous interbreeding between people of slightly different coloration, would tend to retain the potential genetic diversity for such characteristics. After the flood from the eight individuals on the ark came all the current individuals on the earth. The differences are quite simply explained by genetic isolation brought about by the Babel dispersion where the major barrier of language led to much smaller people groups being isolated and so each with a less complete available genetic pool.
Further to the above, environmental factors led to selection of various colors in different areas. One example of this is the known protective effect of melanin, which produces darker skin color, against UV radiation, which would tend to produce cancers and premature aging in persons of lighter skin color in hot and sunny climates. Similarly, in low sun environments such as Norway, people of darker skin color would have trouble producing enough vitamin D through their skin and so tend to suffer from the degenerative bone disorder rickets. Some have even suggested that this led to the demise of the Neanderthal people, since they evidently had this disorder, as evidenced in their bones."
It sounds like you're saying incest was OK then because it justified a means?
BETH: Don't worry, the Bible also says that, on Judgement Day, people like Kiamtan and R.Norvegicus, (if they don't change), will be CRAWLING on their hands and knees begging ... and you know what we will do then? These folks will have had their chance, have choosen evil and we will laugh at them, because we're vicious and mean? NO, because they have been defeated, and we will then throw them into the lake of fire where they will never harm anyone ever again. Hey, it helps me keep things in perspective in life, you should feel sorry for these individuals who may never see light ...
Others: Laugh and Scoff and judge now, but your time will come, and YOU will be very, very surprised that all of us CHRISTians were right!
But then again, when people start to exercise their capacity for reason and rationality, they tend to worry less about "lakes of fire" in some mythical anthropocentric afterlife for which no evidence exists, and focus more on making life better in practical ways for themselves and their fellow humans here on planet earth.
Plus, they tend to realize that random use of the all-caps key does nothing to improve their credibility.
"nonsensical emotional rhetoric"? unfortunately for you, you will probably never know how wrong you are ... OH, and the Lake of Fire is not an afterlife, per-say ... you won't "go there" According to the Word of God, unbelievers will be destroyed by it, ceasing to exist ... there Is NO hell ... hell is a mythical, religious superstition, if you believe what the Bible says. I do.
Accipeter, I am laughing, hear me laughing? Get used to it, you'll be hearing it again some day!
Btw, I looked up "irony" in the dictionary, and this post was there! LOL!
So is it formal wear or business casual? Will there be a cash bar?
Here's a list of some of PR's strike outs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson
If that's how it is anyway- good people being condemned to a horrible hell because they question or don't believe then i don't want to be a part of it. i will not be a part of that. and what does that say about those who are? now THAT's evil. and laughable.
What if your child ever acted that way on the playground. You moralists always deem you are right. I've read enough of your patched together fairy tales to know that we non-believers get a very clear 7 year warning bell. So if I start seeing flying horses and seas of flames then y'know what, I'll say you guys were right all along!
Here's some stupid logic you may like----After Prop 8 passed, California has been ENGULFED IN FLAMES!!! Seems the huge spaghetti monster is pissed off about that!
We heard this same crap from Pastor Hagie 'bout Hurricane Katrina being sent from god, since New Orleans loves the gays. Get a life people and thanks for reading my rant.
There are many other religions much much older than Christianity and in general they do not go around proselytising their religion nor issue veiled threats of eternal condemnation.to so called "Non Believers".....what a bunch of croc!
Having said that I want you to know I do respect your RIGHT to put forth your points nothwithstanding the fact I find them so infantile and you may continue to issue veiled threats of eternal condemnation in the name of your staunch believe in your Holy Book....however do please note We reserve OUR RIGHTS to free speech and Freedom of Choice of RELIGION.
However, we are discussing the laws of the United States of America, established by the Founding Fathers (skeptics and deists all) as a secular society with a strict adherence to the rights of individuals.
Exactly what does that have to do with the Upanishads, Thucidides' story of creation, your own particular cult, or any other religion?
Dumbledore's Army forever. Only now fighting for Marriage Equality.
my college roommate was one of the people laid off. way to make vague and misspelled generalizations.