DISQUS

The Colorado Independent: Math doesn’t add up in progressives’ complaints against Udall

  • andreamerida · 9 months ago
    I think your premise here is ridiculous. The problem that we're dealing with is a status quo that was invented by 8 years of pressure from the right, which prevented mainstream America from speaking out for their rights. We suffered a loss of our civil liberties, a staggering debt and an overall concerted effort to quash our right to free speech by claiming all dissent as unpatriotic. In fact, we know that speaking truth to power is our constitutional right. Now, we're dealing with people that are much like the post-nuclear holocaust types we see in the Mad Max films; people that are shy of the light and behave in self-preserving manners because of what they've had to suffer. It's the job of our legislators to understand the dynamic and do what is right for the people, even if their Fox News-addled brains cannot see what is right. This is a Jeffersonian time, in that our elected officials must act for the good of the nation even though they do not know what is good for them. We need people like David Sirota to keep sounding the clarion call and reminding our legislators to do what is right for the people.

    Just because some Coloradans don't understand that they need universal health care to keep them from personal bankruptcy, doesn't mean they're not being represented. Progressives need to be the vanguard of this movement, winning hearts and minds along the way.

    Back off!
  • csw64mm · 9 months ago
    Amazing. I guess that being "independent" means independent of taking stands that most Americans agree with and being in the pocket of the DNC?
  • andreamerida · 9 months ago
    Seems to me that most Americans want what's on the center-left agenda. That's why we won resoundingly.
  • csw64mm · 9 months ago
    That is very true. The problem many "media" types fall into is that they buy the old bullshit line that America is somehow a "right of center" country. Even self described "conservatives" sway towards issues/fixes that the "media" would call "liberal."
  • the_gonz · 9 months ago
    How totally off base this is. Didn't Colorado just go blue in the last election? Here's the deal, Udall and Bennet are there to help this president make the changes and to clean up after these so called "conservatives". If these two bone-heads can't figure out that Colorado may have been conservative in the 50’s but we now need change in Washington and they need to help this president or step down and let someone in there who can.
  • Wendy Norris · 9 months ago
    Your critique of the media doesn't apply to TCI -- no one here is arguing that the nation is "right of center" if you read our stories and our mission.

    Though I agree that traditional news organizations, and the DC Villagers, certainly fall prey to a skewed notion of the nation's ideological leanings.

    The problem with respect to the expectations of Udall and Bennet by Sirota and others is that it's not rooted in the reality that Colorado is NOT a center-left state despite the recent statewide wins by largely moderate Democrats with a few notable exceptions, like Sen. Morgan Carroll and Rep. John Kefalas.
  • csw64mm · 9 months ago
    So, we as progressives should just sit back and take it as Bennet and Udall go all "blue dog" because many people in our state identify themselves as "right of center?" Yeah, I like my activism with a side of "shut the f*ck up."
  • Wendy Norris · 9 months ago
    Not suggesting to anybody to sit down, shut up or sell out.

    So the nut of the question is: what does one hope to accomplish with critical remarks? Catharsis is great but is that really what the critics are aiming for?
  • andreamerida · 9 months ago
    So, please clarify the "critical remarks." Are you referring to Sirota's post on Square State, in which he calls attention to the fact that Bennet is avoiding conversations with the local press? How is that critical?

    We need to start developing a longer memory for how our legislators comport themselves, and calling them out on the way they respond to their constituents is exactly what we need to be doing. Bennet has no track record with us, aside from the fact that he lied to the Manual High School parents' organization when he promised he would not close it. The DPS teachers' union doesn't feel good about him, either. This is the track record we have for him. It's not good.

    As the Bible says, it's by our deeds that we're known. We have to tally up what Bennet actually does, or doesn't, do. You should not criticize that effort. It's not responsible journalism.
  • andreamerida · 9 months ago
    I do read them, and this is why this is so off base. But you're missing the point: the main reason why Colorado (and other states) are supposedly right of center is because it has been heretofore been "unpatriotic" to speak dissent....and therefore, offer a different way. The less urbanized centers of Colorado are exactly in the vein that I'm speaking about.

    We progressives are not insisting that these senators state their positions clearly on social issues like gay rights or pro-birth that are the bedrock of right-wing ideology; rather, we insist that they state their positions on the issues that affect all Americans across the board. This includes collective bargaining rights for workers, education, health care, and so on.
  • Wendy Norris · 9 months ago
    Your critique of the media doesn't apply to TCI -- no one here is arguing that the nation is "right of center" if you read our stories and our mission.

    Though I agree that traditional news organizations, and the DC Villagers, certainly fall prey to a skewed notion of the nation's ideological leanings.

    The problem with respect to the expectations of Udall and Bennet by Sirota and others is that it's not rooted in the reality that Colorado is NOT a center-left state despite the recent statewide wins by largely moderate Democrats with a few notable exceptions, like Sen. Morgan Carroll and Rep. John Kefalas.
  • Wendy Norris · 9 months ago
    With all due respect, my post doesn't suggest that progressives need to back off on advancing their political agenda.

    The problem is that taking cheap potshots at politicians isn't getting the job done of working to enact health care reform, extend cram down protections for homeowners facing foreclosure, etc.

    While Sen. Bennet is still a bit of an ideological mystery, Sen. Udall's record is quite well known. His House voting record has always been in the middle of the pack. Why would that change moving into the much more staid Senate?

    Bellyaching on a blog or on the radio isn't going to change that fact. If some progressives are unhappy with his positions, then find a more ideologically-superior candidate to run and give Udall (and Bennet) a primary challenge. Otherwise, this is all kind of a silly tempest in a teapot.
  • andreamerida · 9 months ago
    So, if the commentary on these two senators were all rosy, would that be ok with you? Or is free speech still important whether we agree or not?
  • markw4786 · 9 months ago
    Ms Norris totally misses the point. Although I disagree with her analysis of the Colorado electorate and although I support the EFCA, this too is not the point. Senators, damnit, TAKE A STAND. DECLARE YOUR POSITION, DEBATE, DIALOGUE, DEFEND YOUR STANCE. I have called both our Senators concerning a host of issues and EVERY TIME get the same answer: "The Senator has not made a decision on this yet." Only a coward won't commit...and we have two of them. Both our Senators are ninnies...and that's fine with Ms Norris.
    The problem is, Democrats for too long have taken minorities, progressives, free thinkers and liberals for granted. "What are they going to do? Vote Republican?" Well that's exactly what I will do when Ritter, Bennett and Udall come up for re- election next time. For the first time in my life, and this will disgust me, but I will ...I will contribute to and vote for their Republican challenger. We must send a message to the party "leaders". Once they are out of office, hopefully the Dems will nominate REAL DEMOCRATS next time around. If it takes four or six years of Republicans to clean the slate...so be it! RITTER MUST GO...UDALL MUST GO...BENNETT MUST GO. Join me in this effort...it is time to purge the Party!
  • andreamerida · 9 months ago
    Except for the voting Republican part, I'm with you all the way! That's a stink I just can't stomach. I would rather just not vote.
  • Wendy Norris · 9 months ago
    I think we're talking about two sides of the same coin.

    I talk to Udall and Bennet's staff (and the entire Colorado congressional delegation) quite frequently. I ask everyone of them tough questions that the folks back home want to know and deserve to know. Politicos don't always like that approach (well... they never do) but they respect my need to ask and get answers.

    That's not to say it's acceptable for the media or electorate to capitulate to the darker angels of political life that pushes elected officials to obfuscate their positions, pander to the base or demagogue on controversial issues.

    But calling politicians out publicly or calling them names, as Sirota and other progressive bloggers have done and continue to do is, in my view, unproductive, at best, and damaging to the progressive point of view, at worst.

    Calling for party purges and demanding litmus tests has gotten the conservatives into the out-of-power pickle they find themselves in these days. Do progressives really want to follow that losing strategy?

    STFU? Nope, I'm not saying that at all. But screaming into the wind (or typing oneself into a frenzy) doesn't accomplish anything. There are other options. And that's what I'm interested in exploring with TCI readers.
  • davidsirota · 9 months ago
    Hmmm...I don't remember ever calling Mark Udall a name. In fact, I seem to remember advocating for him for election.

    Hmm...but TCI is interested in "facts." Yes, what a Very Serious Publication to be spending movement progressive money building media infrastructure aimed at telling progressive voters to not demand accountability from their elected representatives. Seems so Very Serious.

    A tip: Spend more resources on David O. Williams' real reporting on real issues, and less resources on fact-free bloviating like this post that merely reprints an Atlantic.com dispatch from Washington, D.C. If you are so interested in the Very Serious Reporting you say you are, you'd see the gravity of that suggestion.
  • Ken811 · 9 months ago
    I wish I could be an ultraleft wing blogger. I wouldn't have to do any work whatsoever, just rage against anyone who doesn't share my views as being part of the right wing kleptocorprofascist conspiracy- and get paid too!

    No, seriously, quit getting your panties in a bunch over the smallest bullshit.
  • Wildflowerw · 9 months ago
    As Wendy's stats imply, Colorado is not a lift-of-center state. We pride ourselves on our independence and individuality. Unions may never be big here, this isn't an industrial center "back east". A lot of us ARE registered Independents...(unaffiliated they call us but I say we are independent), and a lot of us vote with the Democrats...I always do.
    I may lean way left on human rights, women's issues, health care, war, not so far left on others..
    And then there are the moderate Republicans who vote for moderate Democrats. Udall and Bennet have a diverse constituency. The 31% liberal voters are not enough for them to win an election.
    Lest the far left gets too arrogant...I'm starting to notice a bit of the same smug "you're wrong and we're right and we'll tell you what's best for you" as the Gops gave us for 8 years.
    2008 was an unusual and wonderful election in Colorado. Thanks to all the left! But don't forget, the Bush administration was so bad, and the McCain/Palin ticket was so bad, Rin Tin Tin could have run for a state or local office under the Democrat label and won.
  • ErinRosa · 9 months ago
    And here we go again with more hyper-sensitive indignation by David Sirota--something every writer in Colorado has no doubt become accustomed to. Here's how it works: David gets "outraged" over something, files a barrage of blog posts sans factual information, and when confronted with such errors can only sit down and pout and continue to disparage the source until he eventually moves on to someone else. It's an all too familiar dance, meant to feed his ravenous hunger for attention.

    Frankly David, I'd say that TCI has much more quality in one blog post then you have in your entire "nationally syndicated column." Maybe you should try actually reading what Ms. Norris wrote, rather than frothing at the mouth like you did when you called for the head of Timothy Gienther while proposing no solutions of your own.
  • loring · 2 months ago
    I just posted on my Facebook page that I consider Udall worse than Hank Brown, possibly worse than Wayne Allard, and worse than a mere "blue Dem" - as "purple" a Dem as Joe Lieberman. I just wish Andy Romanoff could challenge Udall this year instead of Bennet, because Udall is downright disgusting. I came to this view independently because of Udall's pro-nuclear, pro-military-bases policy. And along comes CS Independent and tells people like me to shut up. No, YOU shut up, because I speak for scores of progressives in this state who DESPISE Udall.